Last week I attended a UKSG workshop called ‘Make Yourself Heard’ which was for anyone wanting to improve their public speaking skills. Public speaking is something I do quite a lot of in my day job, and although I enjoy it and I’m generally a lot more comfortable with it than I used to be, I can still get very nervous. I’d hoped the workshop might give me some tips on how to better prepare and how to manage my nerves.

Speaking at CILIP Conference 2015

Speaking at CILIP Conference 2015 (I was unusually nervous at this one)

Within the first few minutes I realised I was going to really enjoy the workshop (always a good thing to realise!). The facilitators introduced the day and explained how we were going to learn, and I was immediately taken back to my time at Clore – we were assured that the space was a safe space to explore our feelings about public speaking, and that we would be encouraged to go outside of our comfort zone but not as far as our panic zone. We were also asked to respect confidentiality, to listen to others and pay everyone the respect they deserve (including giving our full attention). This might sound obvious, but I really like it when a day begins in this way as I find it really helps set the scene. It’s something I always do with focus groups, but I’m planning to make sure I do this in my workshops in future.

We were introduced to the content, and at that point I realised that what I actually wanted to get out of the day wasn’t tips for managing my nerves, it was actually something much more fundamental. My learning goal was therefore:

To learn how to integrate my authentic drivers into my public speaking.

Quite a big ask, but I can happily say it definitely delivered!

Throughout the day we were encouraged to reflect on our experiences, pay attention to how we feel about upcoming speaking engagements, and think about how we could approach them differently. One learning point for me was when we looked at the different perspectives we have on public speaking. We were given a scenario of preparing for an important presentation on a topic we hadn’t spoken about before but knew about with 3 weeks notice, and I viewed this one positively (I chose the statement that said “A great opportunity to grow and learn”) but when we were given a scenario to share something that was a life affirming experience for us and we were really passionate about I chose the statement “The thought alone makes me feel nervous/anxious”. This wasn’t a common thing in my group and the facilitators encouraged me to unpick that a little more. I think it’s linked to my reluctance to ‘hold the space’ which I experience in both work contexts and social contexts. I’m more comfortable sharing factual information as I can see a clear benefit to sharing that with people, but I’m less comfortable sharing personal experiences as it feels very indulgent and I’m not always sure people will be interested. I’m aware this is an issue I need to overcome and I’m working on that (I feel like I’ve already made some progress on this front since the workshop last week but have a lot more work to do!). 

Our facilitators also shared with us four cornerstones and seven habits of effective public speaking, and we watched some videos of good (and poor) public speaking to help us consider what makes something effective and how this varies  depending on the context and the speaker. I found this really useful for helping me consider my learning goal of working out what feels authentic to me rather than following certain generic rules. Formal public speaking doesn’t feel natural or enjoyable for me but I realised there are things I can do to make these type of situations more appropriate for me (not standing behind a lecturn for example, or wearing an oufit I’m more comfortable in). These small things will, I think, help me focus more on the content of the message I’m delivering which should be better for both myself and my audience. 

We also got the opportunity to practice our public speaking skills at the end of the day and got some really useful feedback from the facilitators. I was very pleased with my feedback – I was told I came across confidently and that my body talk was good (I remember once learning that this was a bad habit but I’m glad that’s not necessarily the case!). The facilitators commented that I presented well when I didn’t refer to my notes which I was pleased to hear as this also felt far more natural to me. I was encouraged to slow down (there’s that point about holding the space again!) and to incorporate stories and jokes into my presentations more. 

The main thing I took from the session is that I should do my public speaking the way that feels natural to me, and integrate all I’ve learnt about being authentic into my public speaking (both formal and informal). For me that includes making sure I am focusing on talking about things I’ve learnt and found interesting and sharing this with others in a language that is easy for them to understand (which will mean adapting the message depending on who I am talking to). Another commonality with this training and what I learnt at Clore was also the importance of story telling so I’m going to try to include this in my public speaking more – whether this is my own story, or using stories about others (e.g. people who have used the service I’m speaking about) to explain things more easily.

I found the workshop incredibly helpful, and it came at just the right time. I have quite a few public speaking engagements in the next few weeks and months so will be practicing doing these in slightly different ways to see what works best for me.  I’m presenting later today and plan not to use my slides (other than a few key ones with screenshots or quotes). I’m planning to include story telling and will see if I can add a joke or two (this might be a bit more tricky given the topic is usage statistics!). If anything goes particularly well, or particularly badly, over the next few weeks of experimentation I’ll share in a later blog post. Wish me luck!

Back in 2009 a terrified version of myself, along with a group of others who were apprehensive if not terrified also, presented my first conference presentation. It was the New Professionals Conference in London and I had to stand on a stage in front of over 100 people and share a presentation I’d written. I say “had to” but actually I’d chosen to. I wanted to share my experiences using social networking (a relatively new thing back then!) and encourage other librarians to join me in blogging and tweeting. I wanted to experience public speaking at a professional conference to stretch myself. I felt physically ill until my presentation, but from about 20 seconds in to my presentation that all changed and I loved it. We were all first time speakers so the audience knew to go easy on us, and many of the audience were new professionals too. Everyone was so supportive, including those who weren’t new professionals but had come along to see what we had to say. People smiled at me as I spoke, and others took notes. Many people came up to me after my presentation to thank me, ask questions, and congratulate me. They told me I didn’t appear nervous (despite the fact that I was convinced I looked like a nervous wreck). Aside from the whole being absolutely terrified thing, I actually really enjoyed it.

So I did more. I wrote proposals for other conferences, and was invited to speak at other events. My confidence grew and although I always get nervous, I learnt how to deal with the nerves better and I knew that once I began speaking I’d be fine. I have always prepared well and only ever speak about topics I am very familiar with, and generally about things I am passionate about which always helps. I still get nervous, and I can definitely improve, but I think I’m starting to fall out of love with presenting in this way. Why? Well, I’ve been having an affair.

Some of the conferences I have been invited to speak at in more recent years have asked me to deliver a workshop rather than a presentation. This appeals to the part of me that really wants to help others develop – I always wanted to teach, and I find it incredibly rewarding. Seeing someone have a ‘light bulb moment’ because of something I’ve asked them to reflect on or to apply to their own context is wonderful. I generally find that for me, facilitating active learning results in something more exciting than the traditional method of delivering a presentation.

As a learner, I definitely prefer this approach (which I appreciate may skew my opinion). During the Clore Leadership Short Course in February, we had a number of external facilitators delivering full day or half day workshops over the two weeks. Many of them involved a lot of group discussion as well as group and individual activities. I absolutely loved it and learned so much, my head was full of ideas (it was exhausting too, but an incredible learning experience). On one of the days we entered the room and I noticed we had handouts with lots of presentation slides. My heart sunk. To be fair, we did have some discussion points in the session. I learned a few new things, and some of the points made were very interesting, but I felt like I was back in a conference room rather than in my lovely active learning bubble. I noticed as I was reflecting on the fortnight that the sessions I’d enjoyed the most were those where the facilitators prompted us to think for ourselves. They often didn’t share as much in terms of theory, and focused more on sharing their experiences and encouraging us to share our own experiences and perspectives. They were incredibly skilled facilitators, but in a different way to traditional presenting. They created a safe, supportive environment to enable us to share our thoughts and our learning without fear of ‘being wrong’. They encouraged us to explore things and learn from each other. They gave us space to think.

In the workshops I have delivered I know sometimes I have tried to pack too much content into them, and sadly the active learning parts are the parts that sometimes get cut a little short. However having been a participant in this type of environment I can now see that for many workshops less is definitely more in terms of sharing content and that for these types of situation more emphasis (and therefore more time) should be on the discussions, activities and opportunities for reflection.

Recently I’ve facilitated workshops on leadership, a topic that I believe we all have knowledge of in some way and something that although I do have experience of I do not consider myself an expert in (I don’t think I ever will be; I support the view that leadership is learned and that we always have more to learn about ourselves and how we interact with others). When I started planning the workshops, I had lots of ideas of activities I wanted to do, but I also for some reason felt like I needed presentation slides. In practice, I absolutely loved the activities I facilitated (and received good feedback on them) and I didn’t much enjoy the sections I “presented” – even when the slides were just photos or pictures with very little text. It felt too structured and didn’t enable me to adapt what I said as much. Facilitating rather than presenting is a very different experience; I found it just as tiring, if not moreso, but so much more rewarding. I learned about the participants and was able to support them as they needed it, and I could tailor the guidance I provided and the topics covered based on their needs. It’s definitely a skill I’d like to develop.

I think for most of the things I do there will be part that needs presentation slides, and I’m aware that some people prefer to learn in this way so I am unlikely to remove it completely, but I’ll certainly be thinking very carefully about whether a presentation is the most appropriate medium in future. Of course this does partly depend on the topic as well as the audience and the situation (venue, time etc.); I do think there is still a place for traditional presenting, and I’m sure I’ll continue to do it (I’ll be giving a presentation at a conference next week in fact!), but in future I’ll definitely be considering when honing my facilitation skills may be more appropriate than honing my presentation skills.

What do you think? Do you prefer presenting or facilitating? Any tips for developing my facilitating skills?

Another year has flown past and it’s time for my annual review – you can see previous ones for 2008, 2009, 2010, 2011, and 2012.

2013 has been a funny old year; nothing particularly terrible has happened, but I haven’t felt as positive as I usually do and this has been reflected by a decrease in blogging and use of social media. It’s not all bad though, as another reason for this decrease is a continuation of what I mentioned last year as a major lesson – trying to achieve a more sustainable work-life balance. This year I’ve been doing a lot of other hobbies – for some months I was regularly running, I’ve been learning nail art (and building quite a large collection of nail polishes!), I’ve learnt to crochet, and I’ve been doing lots of knitting. Oh, and I’ve become a little addicted to Grey’s Anatomy. There have also been some professional achievements during the year, so I’m going to take the opportunity to highlight those as I have done in previous years.

2013 highlights

2013 highlights

Top left: Entering the CILIP offices for the final day of my secondment
Top right: Attendees at one of my CILIP Umbrella Conference breakout sessions
Bottom left: One of my CILIP Update columns
Bottom right: Lean In book by Sheryl Sandberg (image from Google Books)

One major thing this year has been my part-time secondment to CILIP for the Future Skills Project. Between May and November, two days of my working week were spent on the project along with another project worker, Julie Griffiths. Our focus was to work on the recommendations from the Future Skills project board to prepare for the launch of the new Professional Registration (previously referred to as CILIP Qualifications). We worked on the assessment criteria, the assessment process, the handbooks, and online support materials for Certification, Chartership, Fellowship, and Revalidation. For revalidation we reviewed the process and made it much more straight forward to submit on an annual basis, rather than a large portfolio every 3 years. We also provided training for a number of specific groups related to Professional Registration – the Professional Registration Assessment Board, Mentor Support Officers, and Candidate Support Officers. After a successful member vote in November, the new scheme has now launched and people are starting to use it. I hope they find it clearer than the previous system, and I know CILIP staff will be working hard to support everyone involved to make it a relatively smooth transition. The project was really interesting to work on, and totally different from my day job; the variety was good for me, and I enjoyed working with lots of different CILIP members. It was also really good to get to know more of the CILIP staff, who are lovely and made myself and Julie feel very welcome. I feel honoured to have been able to work on the project and the experience has certainly been a highlight of my year.

Towards the end of last year, I made a conscious decision to not attend as many conferences in 2013 as I had in 2012. This was a tough decision; I absolutely love conferences and learn so much from them, both through the sessions I attend and the conversations I have with people I meet at conferences. However, I find them pretty draining, particularly when I have a presentation to prepare for and deliver (though I love doing it and it is a really important part of my role as a researcher). I knew though that attending too many conferences could reach a stage where it impacts on my work, as it’s not just the time out at the conference, but the preparation time before and reflection time after. I knew I needed to prioritise so that I wasn’t spending as much time outside working hours doing activities relating to conferences.

I decided to only submit proposals for CILIP Umbrella Conference, which is a conference I’ve never been able to attend previously. I was delighted to discover that both my proposals had been successful, though of course that meant quite a bit of work ahead of me. I was very fortunate to be working with two fantastic co-presenters who made the whole process enjoyable, and I really enjoyed the conference. The keynotes were excellent as no matter what sector you work in, there was something to take from them all. I also really enjoyed a leadership panel discussion I attended, and breakout sessions on continuing professional development.

I was invited to present at other events, and although I couldn’t fit them all into my schedule, I was able to accept some and really enjoyed the opportunity to speak about topics that interest me. I presented workshops on tools and techniques to improve productivity; getting the most out of professional development; using mobile technologies in libraries; and at Internet Librarian International I was invited to share my experiences as a learner on a MOOC (see my previous blog post for further information on MOOCs). You can see a full list of the presentations I gave in 2013 on my Presentations page.

Another highlight of 2013 for me has been writing a column for CILIP Update. This followed on from an article I wrote for the magazine in 2012 on the Getting Things Done methodology, and this year I have written tips and advice on a number of different themes to do with improving productivity. I received some really positive feedback on the column and know some people have found the ideas useful in changing their own practice. I’ve drafted a blog post to summarise the key points from the column and will share that soon – in the meantime, the columns are available from my Publications page.

Something else I’ve enjoyed in 2013 is the Library Leadership Reading Group (LLRG). I started this after the CILIP in Wales 2012 conference on leadership, and since then have hosted discussions on ten different readings relating to leadership. I’ve found the discussions really useful – sometimes I haven’t really enjoyed reading the book but after the discussion have taken more from it due to other people’s perspectives after reading it. I’ve been tending to create a Storify of each discussion and you can see them linked from the LLRG Google document. At the moment we’re reading a book on change management, Our Iceberg is Melting, which we’re likely to discuss in January. Keep an eye on the #llrg tag on Twitter if you’re interested in joining us, everyone is welcome. One particular highlight of LLRG for me this year has been reading Lean In by Sheryl Sandberg. I absolutely loved it and it has had a huge influence on my life. I’ve discussed parts of the book with so many different people, and continue to think about some of the things mentioned in the book when I have to make decisions. I’ve also become part of a Lean In circle which has been a very positive experience for me.

So there we go, my personal highlights for the year. I hope you have enjoyed 2013, and whether or not you celebrate New Year I hope you have the opportunity to mark the beginning of 2014 in some way. I’m looking forward to a fresh start, beginning with a potential break of tradition (something I very rarely do!). First though, I shall be trying some new cocktails tonight including the one below – cheers!

I'm not sure if this is really the best method of persuasion...

I’m not sure if this is really the best method of persuasion…

Earlier this week I attended a training session on persuasive speaking, hosted by Future Faces Birmingham. It was delivered by Mimi Hughes of Business Voice. I wasn’t too sure what to expect to be honest, but it proved to be an excellent workshop which I learnt a lot from, particularly about speaking skills.

Mimi began the event by getting us to think about what we mean by persuasive speaking and when we need to persuade. We concluded that in almost any working relationship, we need to utilise persuasion skills – to get people to listen to us, to work collaboratively, or to delegate work, as well as the more immediate examples such as selling, negotiating, or asking for a promotion/payrise.

We were then introduced to the three main components of persuasiveness:

  1. Presence
  2. Message
  3. Mechanism

We also discussed personal impact and presentation skills which are important in all three components.

Mimi then asked some very brave volunteers (she referred to them as ‘Have a go heroes’ which I liked as a term) to come to the front and speak to the rest of the room about their organisation. They only had a minute to speak and they were recorded, and then we all watched them back (see what I mean when I said they were very brave! In return they got some really useful feedback). This exercise was all about presence and the following tips were shared with us to help improve:

  • Opening lines and the way you start are key. Your audience makes a subconscious judgment before you have even spoken
  • Body language very important – stand squarely on to people and straight (keep confident)
  • Don’t stand behind desks or flip charts – need to show your presence
  • Your voice needs to reach out to people furthest away from you (you can practice this by projecting your voice against a wall and gradually moving further back)
  • Need to pause between key points – pausing is key in persuasion
  • Don’t use preparation words before each sentence (Ok, Right, Um) – know what you’re going to say and start on the positive words
  • Look like you’re interested in what you are saying in order to be interesting to others
  • Let your hands move if they want to – good to use your hands as they give out energy
  • Settle your hands in a comfortable middle position where they can move easily from (ideal position is joined together at the waist, not too low or behind you)
  • Movement is good as it adds energy – though needs to be definite, not just shuffling from side to side
  • Moving the face also important to show enthusiasm
  • Um and err are not too intrusive as long as they are not used excessively, though pausing is better
  • If you want to move when you start speaking, take a step forward not backwards
  • It’s good practice to engage with people as they enter the room and encourage people to respond to your greeting (ask for their name and what they do/how they are) as it helps breaks down barriers
  • Shaking hands and making positive eye contact is also good as again helps break down barriers
  • Good to tap into something your audience are familiar with and tap into their emotions

We then focused on the message element and how to tailor the message to maximise its effectiveness. Mimi emphasised the importance of focusing on the key idea(s) you are trying to get across, and considering how to ensure the audience (in broad terms, this could be just a one-to-one conversation) will take that away. In order to achieve this, the audience needs to be able to repeat the message and the best way to get to this is to keep the message clear and brief. In presentations, Mim recommended only aiming to talk for around 10 minutes, and dedicate longer time to Q&A to extend the dialogue and cement the message. We then completed an exercise preparing the key messages about our organisation using the following model:

Model for constructing message

Model for constructing message

In the model, the roof is the conclusion you want people to walk away with (you may mention what this is, but you may not). You want the audience to walk away with the conclusion based on the evidence you provide them with through the three pillars, which act as the different messages you deliver. Three is an ideal number, though you can manage with 2-4 (as can a building). 1 isn’t really enough to get them to believe in the conclusion, whilst too many will make the messages less memorable and weaken the argument. We did this as an activity with our own organisations and two more ‘Have a go heroes’ presented about their organisations using this model. You’ll probably also have noticed that Mimi practices what she preaches as our whole workshop was based on this model with the three components of persuasion as the three key messages.

We also discussed how to handle questions, which is a key part of helping get your message across. The main things here were to listen very carefully to the questions, and think about the answer you are going to give before speaking. You want to aim to “build, bridge, and reinforce” in your response so that you bring it back to your key messages and help cement that in their minds. You’ll also need to stay focused and keep it brief but tailored to the audience. If you don’t know the answer to the question, be cautious about winging it – if you don’t know enough to do so, be honest and tell the person you’ll find out and get back to them (and make sure you do). We also discussed hostility and Mimi warned us to be careful as we may be seeing nervousness and recognising it as hostility – generally, people won’t be hostile, and if they are, let it wash over you.

We briefly discussed the mechanics, such as using presentation slides only to illustrate the key messages but keeping the focus on what you’re going to say; making sure you have the right people for group presentations (some may need to be there to respond to questions but don’t need to present as too many can dilute the message); not leaning on lecturns or tables when speaking as this comes across as too relaxed and like you’re not really interested; and listen carefully in two-way conversations and again try to link what they are saying back to your key messages.

Mimi ended the workshop by sharing some exercises of things we can do to help improve our persuasive skills by improving our presence, message and mechanism. Some of them may seem a little silly at first (she got us up on our feet flopping our bodies over to help our posture, and reading stories aloud to practice our pitch and pausing), but I really think they’re going to be useful tools in helping improve my skills.

What next?

I’m currently preparing some conference presentations and webinars and found this workshop really useful for helping me plan these further. It’s caused me to reflect on the best way to use my allotted time, the materials I develop to support what I’m going to say, and the way I hope to present myself. I was really pleased to learn that it’s OK to use your hands when you talk as I naturally do this a lot and was worried it came across as too much arm flailing. Mimi reassured us that as long as it is natural, it’s very rare for it to come across as too much. One thing I know I need to work on is pausing. I tend to speak very quickly in normal conversation, and even moreso when the adrenaline is pumping and I’m giving presentations. I fill what little thinking time I allow myself with ‘um’ as well, so I’m hoping to practice talking more clearly and pausing when presenting key points to help them stand out.

I also have a training session next week on making presentations and giving briefings, so I’m hoping some of what I learnt in this workshop will be repeated and it might help it stick!

I was invited this year to give a presentation at the CILIP in Wales 2012 conference on leadership. As leadership is one area I’m really keen to develop skills in I was delighted – this enabled me to both share my own progress so far (and hopefully help others plan their leadership journey during my workshop), and also to attend the conference to learn from those more experienced than myself.

My presentation focused on how you can develop leadership skills through professional engagement, particularly through supporting professional organisations. It’s no secret that I’m a keen advocate for professional organisations – my volunteering for them is a reciprocal relationship. I benefit greatly from getting involved in a wide variety of things I wouldn’t ordinarily be able to do within the scope of my day job (thus developing a broader skill set), and the organisations benefit from my input to committees/projects/task forces/working groups. Read the rest of this entry »

As I mentioned in my earlier post on How to run a great workshop, I tried out some new techniques at the CDG workshop I ran a few weeks ago. Now that I’ve had a little time to both reflect personally and to digest the feedback from attendees, I thought I’d share the things that worked well, the things that didn’t, and the main areas I’d like to improve on.


Workshop for CILIP CDG

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Last week, I gave a seminar on ‘Managing yourself: how to be productive with your time’. I’d been invited by CILIP Career Development Group London and South East branches to deliver a session on this topic which expanded on my presentation from Internet Librarian International 2012 on Productivity for Librarians. The focus of this seminar was much more practical in nature so rather than just talking through some of the tools I use and the way I implement the Getting Things Done (GTD) methodology, we went through each stage of the GTD methodology and considered how it could be implemented for each participant through individual activities, group activities, and discussion.

The slides are embedded below and available on Slideshare:

If you’re interested in learning more about anything in the presentation, please leave a comment if it’s something I might be able to help with, or I would recommend checking out the following resources:

  • Allen, D. (2001) Getting Things Done: How to achieve stress-free productivity. Piatkus.
  • Hines, S. (2010) Productivity for Librarians: How to get more done in less time. Oxford: Chandos Publishing.
  • Houghton-Jan, S. (2008) Being Wired or Being Tired: 10 Ways to Cope with Information Overload. Being Wired or Being Tired: 10 Ways to Cope with Information Overload. Ariadne [online]. Available at:
  • Maggio, R. (2009) The Art of Organizing Anything: Simple Principles for Organizing Your Home, Your Office, and Your Life. New York: McGraw Hill.
  • Osman, H. (2011) How to design the ultimate home office (e-book)
  • Lifehacker blog –

Last week I gave my first ever webinar as part of the American Library Association (ALA) Library and Information Technology Association (LITA) Mobile Computing Interest Group (MCIG) virtual meeting.* It took place instead of a physical meeting at ALA Midwinter to enable more people to attend and present. There were five presentations in 90 minutes so we each had 10 minutes to present and 5 minutes of Q&A. If you’re interested in the topic, you can watch a recording of the webinar – see the blog post I wrote for our m-library community support project blog.

I thought it would be useful to reflect on my experiences of presenting a webinar – I’m noticing more and more webinars set up to enable more people to attend virtually across different time zones and without the expense of travelling, so I imagine presenting at webinars is something we’ll be seeing a lot more of in future.This is my setup – home office with laptop for webinar software, headset for listening/speaking, iPhone for timing, and iPad and notepad for presentation prompts (and all important glass of Ribena!):

Webinar setup

Webinar setup

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I’m a creature of habit, so I’m continuing the tradition of posting an end of year blog post (see 2008, 2009, and 2010). It’s actually really useful for me to look back and see what I did each year. So, what has 2011 involved?

2011 mosaic

1. My ALA 2011 badge complete with ribbons!, 2. Louisiana State University, 3. Osney Building at University of Oxford, 4. CILIP signage Read the rest of this entry »

At Online Information 2011, I presented in one of the European Librarians Theatre panel discussions. The discussions are hosted by EBSCO and SLA Europe and bring together librarians from different parts of Europe to discuss a topic and the experiences within their country. My session, ‘Everyone is talking but is anyone listening?’ focused on social media. It was chaired by Sara Batts (see tweet below), and my fellow panelists were Katrin Weller and Dennie Haye.


I think the panel discussion flowed well – there was largely agreement across the board on a number of different factors, suggesting that libraries across Europe are at a similar stage with social media (the panel had representatives from UK, Germany and The Netherlands). There were some really interesting examples from my fellow panelists – one example of Yammer being used for internal communication (in an international organisation with staff dispersed geographically), and one example of Facebook being used by a University before students arrived to help answers queries and help them begin to make friends.

The main messages I took from the session were that libraries and librarians should experiment with social media to see what works, and should aim to understand more about their users as no two libraries will use social media in the same way.

You can see the tweets from the session at the #elt2011 hashtag (thanks to @WoodsieGirl and @EBSCOUK for such comprehensive tweeting!) and there is a write up of the session on the SLA Europe website.
As mentioned before, I decided to get  information for my section of the discussion via a brief survey – many thanks to those who gave feedback. The main themes emerging from the results of this are shown below. Read the rest of this entry »